A single ended Trainwreck ?

Express, Liverpool, Rocket, Dirty Little Monster, etc.

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loverocker
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A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by loverocker »

Am I mad? A few threads on some other forums and a spare chassis with 2 noval and 1 octal sockets set me wondering about a 'Jr' version of the Trainwreck.

This would have the usual Wreck preamp, and then a fake PI stage after the clipping stage. Then driving a SE EL34/6V6.

I've just drawn up the basic signal path from my first scribble, so there's no power supply yet, and no values:
Image

Anyone got any opinions or advice before I start?
in the wilds of Borneo, and the vineyards of Bordeaux, Eskimo, Arapaho, move their bodies to and fro...
BigGator
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by BigGator »

Look through the archives at AX84... I could swear that someone did something similar over there...
"-)
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Funkalicousgroove
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by Funkalicousgroove »

It is my understanding that there is an actual 'Wreck Called a DLM (Dirty Little Monster) that is a single ended KT88 amp. Don't remember where I read it though.
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loverocker
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by loverocker »

BigGator wrote:Look through the archives at AX84... I could swear that someone did something similar over there...
"-)
That's where I saw the idea of having a fake PI - it cropped up in a thread over there about an single-ended SLO. So I've just slotted it into a minimal 'wreck design.

Funkalicious - I'll see what I can find out on that DLM, thanks. :)
in the wilds of Borneo, and the vineyards of Bordeaux, Eskimo, Arapaho, move their bodies to and fro...
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MarkB
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by MarkB »

You mean like this?


This is the html version of the file http://blueguitar.org/new/schem/trainwreck/kf_dlm.pdf.
G o o g l e automatically generates html versions of documents as we crawl the web.
To link to or bookmark this page, use the following url: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:ZW ... +amp&hl=en

Google is neither affiliated with the authors of this page nor responsible for its content.
These search terms have been highlighted: dirty little monster amp
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From: aron
(geoaron@geocities.com)
Date: 5/8/2000 9:43 PM
Subject: Dirty Little Monster - review/FYI
Some of you wanted to know a little more about the "Dirty Little Monster" Trainwreck
Prototype so here's my take on it....
----------------
I got to play the Dirty Little Monster amp (Train Wreck prototype) the other day. It looked like
a typical Train Wreck amp but with labels for the knobs. I played it through a two 12" celestion
greenback cabinet (I think they were 16 ohm speakers???). I wish I had more details but I didn't
have that much time to check things out that much.
It's an 8 watt amp I believe and it can get pretty darn loud for what it is.
How can I describe the tone???
The highs are crystal clear - and there's a twinge of "angry-ness" at the very top. Like a "biting"
tone at the very top of the timbre. The lows are tight, yet complex, mids are fantastic. With the
volume control of the guitar, the amp goes from crystal clear to angry and distorted. With a
Strat/Fralins it went from extremely clean to beyond a bluesy tone - with a turn of the pot. You
could easily play rhythm and then jump to lead with a turn of the pot. I played 2 or three Fender
strats through it and you could hear each guitars tone.
However, even when dimed, it had just a tad too little drive for the over the top kind of liquid
soloing I like.
Luckily I had my FET drive with me. For those of you who don't know, my FET drive/AKA
Booster 2.5 has 2 Jack Orman Mini-Boosters in series tuned somewhat like an tube preamp
(22uF bypass cap on first stage,100 ohm resistor) to Marshall style 470K/470K voltage divider
with 470pf high pass filter to 1Meg pot with .001uF treble "bleed" cap. This then goes to a 2nd
stage into a tone control. This is all based upon Jack Orman's Fantastic Mini-Tubes preamp.
Man, what a combination! With just a little boost from the FET drive, this thing went from
totally clean to singing sustain with BITE! You could get everything. Angry sounding leads to
more "closed" sounding liquid leads using the FET drive as the distortion circuit.
I noticed the amp was fairly bright and I had most of the Treble control turned down almost all
the way. There's only treble and bass I think and there was a peculiar pot that only worked when
the Master was used. Yes, there was a Master Volume on this one.
My guess would be that the pot somehow affects a treble bleed cap across the master volume?
That would explain why it only worked when the Master was used. There was another slope?
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control and I guessed this to mean that it affected the slope of the tone controls.... I wish I knew
more but that's about all I know.
I know this reads like an ad, but I wish I owned this thing. Well, I own the pedal. :-)
Went back to my Fender Bassman and oops - where's the clear highs with complex mids and
lows.... Hmmm.... left back at Hilo I think.
Hehehehe
Aron
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From: JAY
Date: 5/11/2000 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: Dirty Little Monster - review/FYI
sounds like some really Cool stuff!
What kind of tubes were in there?
JAY
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From: Steve A.
(steve_ahola@yahoo.com)
Date: 5/12/2000 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: Dirty Little Monster - review/FYI
Aron:
So who makes the D.L.M.? Any chance that you can sneak a peek inside to let us know what
is going on in there?
--Thanks!
Steve Ahola
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From: aron
(geoaron@geocities.com)
Date: 5/13/2000 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: Dirty Little Monster - review/FYI
The DLM is a prototype Train Wreck from Ken F. I guess it was some sort of proto amp for
low power.
It's in Hilo and I live in Honolulu. Maybe the next time I can look at it - I'm not sure.
The thing is.... I mean.... look at the Express schematic - there's nothing amazing about it. I
guess what you are looking for is the brand and values of certain caps and perhaps the tubes and
transformers.
I can tell you one thing, this Wreck is bright. It has a biting high end and like I said, the treble
was fairly turned down - sometimes all the way.
Man, that seems to coincide with the 50pf vs. 470/220pf issue.
It's WAY brighter than my Fender Bassman's normal channel.
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From: Steve A.
(steve_ahola@yahoo.com)
Date: 5/14/2000 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: Dirty Little Monster - review/FYI
Aron:
So Ken Fischer is back in business producing guitar amps? Or is this maybe one of his
"authorized clone franchises"...
The thing is.... I mean.... look at the Express schematic - there's nothing amazing about it.
Sometimes it is the simple designs that make the best sounds. BTW the Wreck Express
design is quite unlike practically any amp that came out before it. Although the tone stack is
placed after the first stage like a BF amp, the connection to the mid pot is like the
5F6A/Marshall tone stack (as are the cap and tone pot values). And compared to the Normal
channel of the BF amps there is a third gain stage before the PI (which is much more like a
Marshall than a Fender). So this beast is not quite animal or vegetable, so to speak.
You are right about the caps and trannies contributing to the unique sound; I also believe that
KF fine-tunes each and every amp that he sells...
Steve Ahola
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P.S. Did you notice what kind of wood the head was made out of? &LT grin &GT
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From: aron
(geoaron@geocities.com)
Date: 5/17/2000 12:53 AM
Subject: Re: Dirty Little Monster - review/FYI
>So Ken Fischer is back in business producing guitar amps?
Not that I know. I think this is one he had around his house. My friend was very lucky to get it.
>BTW the Wreck Express design is quite unlike practically any amp that came out before it.
I stand corrected.
>So this beast is not quite animal or vegetable, so to speak.
I see. I haven't studied enough amp schematics to know what is unique or not I guess.
>I also believe that KF fine-tunes each and every amp that he sells...
I'm sure of this. Also he is extremely picky about each set of tubes too from what I have heard.
>Did you notice what kind of wood the head was made out of?
I better check. I could hear the difference if I put my can of soda on it. Really made a difference
in the mids. :-)
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From: Steve A.
(steve_ahola@yahoo.com)
Date: 5/19/2000 3:33 AM
Subject: Re: Dirty Little Monster - review/FYI
aron:
And I was thinking that you had just seen this amp in a store... You better make a complete
set of photos of the inside of the chassis for your friend— you know, for insurance purposes if it
ever caught on fire...
And experts recommend storing a set of backup files as far away from the originals as
possible so you can send the backups to me for safekeeping. &LT grin &GT
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If I seem to be overly enthusiast about the Trainwreck Express design (probably not entirely
different from your friend's DLM!) it is because I have been hearing from so many people who
have been building amps based on the Expresso schematics posted last year, and they have been
really knocked out with the results.
--Thanks!
Steve Ahola
P.S. You better measure all of the plate voltages, too... for insurance purposes so that a
like-for-like replacement could be built.
toddyjoe
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by toddyjoe »

Keep us posted on how that turns out. I have a single-ended amp using a single 12AX7 in a Hiwatt/Marwatt preamp and a single EL34/KT88 swappable output section. I have been thinking about adding another 12AX7 in the middle for a Trainwreck clipping stage and faux phase-inverter but have not heard any SE Wreck clones to inspire me to go that extra step.

Does anyone know for sure that the Dirty Little Monster is a KT88 amp? I can get 8 watts with a single EL34 and easily more than that with a KT88.
Sammas
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by Sammas »

Have you guys looked at the Fuchs Lucky 7?
doctord02
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by doctord02 »

Dave Jones has posted several SE wreck variations over at AX84.com. I'll attach what I have saved here...

In my various lists of ongoing projects, I'm planning on building a SE wreck similar to what Jones sketched out in his derailment.pdf schematic - except I'm going for an EL34 tube and a fixed bias instead of a cathode bias. I've got some Heyboer OT iron for a SE build, as well as a Heyboer PT that will work quite nicely. I just have to find the time to put it together...
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loverocker
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by loverocker »

Thanks guys. I didn't find any more info yet on the DLM, but that old thread is interesting for mentioning the brightness thing. My biggest question is whether the Wreck's brightness might be overpowering in an SE amp.

Sammas - Does the Lucky 7 use the TW preamp? I've not seen/heard one in person (they're very rare here in England).

doctord02 - Thanks for those (I'll search AX84 for the old threads). I've also wondered about using fixed bias to stick as close to the original as possible. My PT has no bias tap nor CT but I saw how it's done in the Marshall 9005 - http://www.drtube.com/schematics/marshall/9005.gif - I might try that. Any thoughts?
in the wilds of Borneo, and the vineyards of Bordeaux, Eskimo, Arapaho, move their bodies to and fro...
doctord02
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by doctord02 »

Loverocker - I'll likely do some sort of bias circuit based on either the Express or on the standard Marshall type circuit; the PT I have is center tapped but does not have a bias tap.

I'll likely build it with a cathode follower in that unused tube half to mimic the PI...

I was under the impression that the DLM was built into a gutted Fender chassis, perhaps a Princeton? Not sure where I picked that info up tho. I've never heard that it was a SE KT88 before tho. However I may be thinking of Ken's prototype for the Express.
chimeboss
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by chimeboss »

The DLM was a sleeper amp built into a small familar combo
:twisted:
Snapcase
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by Snapcase »

Hey, great info, guys. I met DLM schem years ago but I didn't pay any attention to it because I was in my big amp days, but I'm becoming a huge tiny amps junkie. I think I need to start some searches at AX84.

Thanks.
loverocker
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by loverocker »

chimeboss wrote:The DLM was a sleeper amp built into a small familar combo
:twisted:
Really? What a cool coincidence. I'm also building my TW Jr as a 'sleeper' in this old Keyboard 20 combo:

Image

Must be fate ;)
in the wilds of Borneo, and the vineyards of Bordeaux, Eskimo, Arapaho, move their bodies to and fro...
Snapcase
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Re: A single ended Trainwreck ?

Post by Snapcase »

Cool stuff:

Derailment: Links above
Dirty Little Monster: Search AX84
Pony Express: http://www.freewebs.com/jonesamps/jones ... matics.htm

Interesting reading about Derailment: http://ax84.com/bbs/dm2.php?id=171502

Anything more over there?
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