Volume boost on gain channel

[greiswig]

Probably a dumb question, but I'm famous for those.

I have a Bad Cat amp with two channels. On the gain channel, when I get the distortion level right for power chords, I can't get a sufficient volume boost for lead work using a pedal...This is with the pedal going straight into the guitar input. And I don't trust the soundman!

I assume that this is not unique to this amp? Is it just that turning up the gain means that I'm already clipping the preamp tubes, and putting higher signal into those same tubes means that it will just clip harder, with relatively little volume increase?

Are there designs that have dealt with this issue? Boosting in the FX loop?

[Jack]

Yes.

A nice way is to roll down the volume a bit on your guitar and reset the amp settings for power chords and roll on for solos. The volume increase is relatively bigger than a pedal boost.

If you're not confortable playing with the guitar volume, you could make a "volume pedal" that is foot switching at a set value (with a pot in a pedal case instead of a rocker pedal).

If the amp had MV, I'd go for master volume switching.

[oldhousescott]

Yes, if you have an EFX loop, just put a booster in it and switch it on for solos. A Boss GE7 works great for this as you can boost the mids as well as the level.

If you're into DIY (as we're supposed to be here), you could build a pedal with a pot to set your base level, and a footswitch to bypass it for solos.

[Darkbluemurder]

I had the exact same problem: if I put a booster in front of an overdriven amp or channel I got more drive but not more volume. With the Bad Cat Hot Cat you have two options:

1. Set the clean channel for a crunchy tone and turn down the guitar volume to get the clean tones (WARNING: LOUD!). Set the gain channel for a louder lead tone. Use an A/B-box to switch between channels.

2. Set the clean channel for a clean tone and use a pedal (could be the Bad Cat X-treme Tone) for the louder lead tone. Set the gain channel for a crunchy tone. If you use an A/B-box you can leave the pedal on while you have the gain channel engaged to switch from crunch to lead.

Both options solve the not loud enough lead tone problem.

I don't trust the soundman either as far as solo volume is concerned. For the overall sound I have to trust him.

Good luck
Stephan

[greiswig]

Thanks, all,

Nice to get confirmation that I understand what is happening.

[drz400]

Thanks, all,

Nice to get confirmation that I understand what is happening.

Only real soultion is to have a good series effects loop and use a keyboard volume pedal. They have a "min" setting you can use for for normal and slam down the pedal for loud. This all assumes you have not tap'd the full output of the amp. IF you have you need a bigger amp. Another trick is to use a slave out and feed another "like" power amp with a speaker cab, kick on the second cab when going to solo's with a footswitch.

[juse]

The Xotic RC Booster pedal works nice too, and it doesn't change your tone and has true bypass. I use the Boss GE7 for a solo booster, works perfect when you notch up the level slider to just above your normal playing volume - plus you can shape the sound with the EQ. These will work unless you are dimed out, then the extra just gets compressed.

[bueller]

What I build into my amps is two master volumes that are footswitchable with a DC powered relay DTPT switch. I think they are the 5VDC Ormrons. I also have switchable gain controls using the same relays. That gives me four combinations. High gain/low gain and high vol/low volume or any combination. Either "channel" can be set with the same or set differently and each gain has it's own bright switch. I place the foot switches close enough so that you can step on both at the same time or individually. No external pedals required.

[WholeToneMusic]

TAD came out with an overdrive pedal called the RangeKing that doesn't compromise tone at all.It's a remake of the vintage RangeMaster pedals. They call it an overdrive but to me it is a boost pedal. Works really well and doesn't color the tone.


Brian

[greiswig]

What I build into my amps is two master volumes that are footswitchable with a DC powered relay DTPT switch. I think they are the 5VDC Ormrons. I also have switchable gain controls using the same relays. That gives me four combinations. High gain/low gain and high vol/low volume or any combination. Either "channel" can be set with the same or set differently and each gain has it's own bright switch. I place the foot switches close enough so that you can step on both at the same time or individually. No external pedals required.

Very interesting! This strikes me as an excellent solution. I'd love to find out more about your amps. (Invitation to toot your own horn inserted here)

[greiswig]

TAD came out with an overdrive pedal called the RangeKing that doesn't compromise tone at all.It's a remake of the vintage RangeMaster pedals. They call it an overdrive but to me it is a boost pedal. Works really well and doesn't color the tone.


Brian

This has kind of gotten off-topic from my point of view. I have good boost pedals. That isn't the issue: the problem is that boosting into the input of the amp on a channel that is already overdriving doesn't get much of a volume boost...it just distorts more.

[LeftyStrat]

Sometimes a pedal that boosts certain frequencies can be effective, like all of the treble booster pedals (RangeMaster, Orange Bass and Treble, etc).

It is the combination of "apparent" volume increase due to accentuated high end which cuts through the mix better, as well as an actual boost, since higher frequencies require less power (wattage) to amplify. Additionally, most of these older treble boosters were based on germanium transistors, which add artifacts (distortion, compression) which also tends to make leads jump out a bit more.

However, it depends a lot on the band you're playing in. Most of the famous players that have used treble boosters successfully were the only guitarist in their bands. If you're competing with a rhythm guitarist then the other suggestions might be more appropriate.

[greiswig]

Good point about the apparent volume being dependent on a number of things. Thanks!

Also, apologies for perhaps coming off as one of those OP guys who seems to think the thread is entirely for his own benefit and needs to stay 100% on topic. Didn't mean to imply that!

[Fischerman]

The stages that are distorting don't have any headroom left so they can't increase their output...they just distort more. In most 2-channel amps that have Clean and OD and have a Master Volume, the distortion is all in the preamp...and before the FX loop. So goosing the input will just increase the amount of distortion without much, if any, change in volume. But putting something in the loop to control the volume will allow you to adjust your volume with virtually no effect on the amount of distortion or the tone. As mentioned above...this only applies if the power section of the amp still has some headroom left.

If you have a delay in the FX loop, you want to put a boost pedal after it in the loop (so you don't clip the input or increase your delay volume when you boost the signal). But if you put a volume pedal in the loop, then you want it before the delay so when you back off the gas the echoes can still trail away normally.