Bad Caps?

[Structo]

I was checking out Bill M.'s Blues Jr. website and noticed an article about bad E caps on some of the later amps.
He had pictures of some Illinois caps leaking electrolyte out of the rubber stopper.

[img:800:599]http://billmaudio.com/wp/wp-content/upl ... ed_cap.jpg[/img]

So I started looking around the interweb thingy and saw quite a bit of information about faulty electrolytic capacitors.
Not that this goes hand in hand with the fake caps we discovered (small cap inside big cap).
I remember when a lot of PC motherboards were being made from the E caps that had the bad electrolyte paste in them. They would sometimes explode or just deteriorate to such an extent that the motherboard would stop working right.

On another website called BadCaps.net,
They have a list of manufacturers that used the bad paste.
The guy said as recently as 2007 manufactured caps, there were still bad caps out there.

From the BadCap site:
What is the legend behind the badcaps? Well, the rather dubious story behind this problem is that a scientist working for the Japanese company Rubycon left the company and began working for Luminous Town Electric in China. He developed a copy of the Rubycon P-50 water based electrolyte which is what they use in the Low-ESR caps that are present on all motherboards. Unfortunately his staff left and stole his electrolyte formula. They started producing tons of the electrolyte and supplied many Taiwanese capacitor manufacturers. Unfortunately the formula was incomplete and did not contain the additives that prevent electrolysis from occurring inside the capacitors and releasing hydrogen gas which bursts the capacitor at the vents at the top or at the bottom of the capacitor can.


Links to the badcaps manufacturers sites :

Arcon ??
Canicon - http://www.canicon.com.tw/
Capxon - http://www.capxon.com.tw/
Chhsi - http://www.chhsi.com.tw (inactive site)
Choyo
CTC
DST
Fuh Yin - http://www.fuhyin.com.tw/
Fuhjyyu - http://www.fuhjyyu.com.tw/
Fujitsu (FPCAP) - http://edevice.fujitsu.com/fmd/en/products/fpcap/ (mixed results. can fail or be ok)
Gloria - http://www.gloria-cap.com.tw/ (inactive site)
G-Luxon - http://group.luxon.com.tw/
GL ??
Gsc - http://www.gsc-cap.com.tw/
Hec
Hermei - http://www.hermei.com.tw
Illinois
I.Q.
Jackcon - http://www.jackcon.com.tw/
JDEC
Jee
Jpcon - http://www.jpcon.com/
Jun Fu - http://www.jun-fu.com/
Lelon - http://www.lelon.com.tw/
Licon
Nkcon
Nrsy - These are phony Nippon caps so no site.
Ost - http://www.ost.com.tw
Partsnic - http://www.partsnic.com/
Pce-tur
Raycon
Rubysun (Shenzen Eagle New Technology Electrical Industry Co. Ltd.) - http://www.ygxkjdz.com/
Rulycon - These are phony Rubycon caps so no site.
Skywell - http://www.skywellnet.com/
Stone - http://www.ystone.com.tw/ (not sure if this is the right one)
Supacon
Su'scon - http://www.su-scon.com.tw/
Taicon - http://www.taicon.com.tw/ (2 reports of fails only but not very commmon to see these caps on motherboards)
Tayeh
Teapo - http://www.teapo.com.tw/
Tocon - http://www.tocon.com.tw/
Wendell - http://www.wendell.com.tw/
Yec - http://www.yec.com.tw http://www.ylcorp.com.tw/ (neither working)

[Rich M]

That list sounds like my kid's collection of Pokemon

[KellyBass]

Thanks for reminding us of this, Tom. I built a lightning a couple of years ago that's stuffed full of these. I think I'm gonna make a call...

[Structo]

Yeah, I was very surprised at how many Taiwanese Cap manufacturers there is or was.

Too bad there isn't that many companies making vacuum tubes.

[Bear]

Too bad there isn't that many companies making vacuum tubes.

. . . that are labeled at twice the voltage they should be rated for and/or that will randomly explode?

[VacuumVoodoo]

...so we can engage in heated high tension disputes over which logo makes the same tube sound better than an unmarked one?

[Dai H.]

I got a brand new Sprague ATOM 10uf with some white stuff coming out the end straight from Mouser one time. I didn't consider it a big deal since I bought more than one but I think that says that even from "good" makers you can still get defective caps. Even perfectly good caps can die or go bad just from use. If you look over datasheets typically (for a typical non-long life low cost cap) it might be 1-2000 hours depending on conditions (easier conditions, less heat, etc. = longer life, and vice a versa).

[FYL]

...so we can engage in heated high tension disputes over which logo makes the same tube sound better than an unmarked one?

Got a batch of Tungsram ECC83's years ago. Some had Mullard CV markings, others had none... Sounded the same (real good in the right amp).

[David Root]

Tom, I have three IC caps that look a lot like your pic except they are rated 500V not 450V (they are 22uF) and date coded TTAA and TTAM. I am planning on using these in my 50W #13 and and I don't need no leaky surprises!

I have heard that these leaky IC caps were from some years ago. I bought these caps from AES about four or five years ago, so I'm hoping they're OK.

Can you enlighten me?

[KellyBass]

Some of these finally bit me, Tom! Lelons to be exact.

The past couple of weeks, I've been playing around with my kt88 SE express project...and (I'll admit) my HT voltages have been all over the place trying to find the sweet spot. Nothing too crazy, though. Anyway, the past couple of days, the PS has been "drifting" to say the least. Last night, the amp started blowing fuses. A quick look at the cap stack revealed a couple of "oozers". B+1 was real bad.

But hey, I saved almost $8.00 when I bought these!

It's Atoms for me from now on...

[Cliff Schecht]

Atoms are expensive. Nichicon makes killer e-caps for very reasonable prices. I use their stuff all over the place at PAiA and in my personal projects and I've never had one fail on me (that wasn't my fault ). Mouser sells them cheap and I love the tiny 400V e-caps they make, you can squeeze two of those where some single caps won't fit.

[Richie]

http://www.justradios.com/orderform.html

Might try some of these. real good prices. Caps out of Canada. Daves great to deal with,orders over 50.00 you get a 10% discount. Has all kinds of caps. Axials in values like 20uf 40uf at 500v.. or 22uf or 47uf 450v. they are a bit smaller in size, but are good caps. I got some and they seem to be good caps. He even has a Money Back deal at the bottom of the page.
So it seems he backs what he sells.

I was using the Tech caps from Jea caps, but they have almost doubled in price. And the 47uf at 500 cost more than the 60 or 80uf caps at 500v.
Seems like a gouge for amp builders.And no quanity break.
Just radios also has many other caps like polystyrene. radial cans..and 600v caps. Those come in handy sometimes.Film caps, mica and values you usually don't see or can't find.
I'm not affiliated with them,just passing on a good thing to others.

[ChrisM]

http://www.justradios.com/orderform.html

Might try some of these. real good prices. Caps out of Canada. Daves great to deal with,orders over 50.00 you get a 10% discount. Has all kinds of caps. Axials in values like 20uf 40uf at 500v.. or 22uf or 47uf 450v. they are a bit smaller in size, but are good caps. I got some and they seem to be good caps. He even has a Money Back deal at the bottom of the page.
So it seems he backs what he sells.

I was using the Tech caps from Jea caps, but they have almost doubled in price. And the 47uf at 500 cost more than the 60 or 80uf caps at 500v.
Seems like a gouge for amp builders.And no quanity break.
Just radios also has many other caps like polystyrene. radial cans..and 600v caps. Those come in handy sometimes.Film caps, mica and values you usually don't see or can't find.
I'm not affiliated with them,just passing on a good thing to others.

+1

Great stuff, dealt with them a bunch.

[KindaFuzzy]

I buy all my caps from Dave, great stuff.

[xtian]

Atoms are expensive. Nichicon makes killer e-caps for very reasonable prices.

Speak of the devil. New caps for the Music Man just arrived.