the most 3 dimensional sounding ODS circuit

[jmrckr]

Hi,

I'm planning to build another ODS amp. I hope some of you guys would share some of your experience with diffrent ODS circuits. I just don't have the money to test them all and chose ... I already build a #124 circuit with small mods. I like it so far, but I realized the importance of the dumbleator to smooth out the sound ... I'm also planning to build a dumbleator with a spring reveb in it, just because I love spring reverb... I also realized that "the dumble sound" has much more presence that most people think. The majority of people seem to think that the ODS amp sounds like it sounds miked up and mastered into a mix ... well.

What do you consider to be the most 3 dimensional sounding circuit ? HIgh plate ? Low plate ? Mix of both ? And wich tonestack, skyliner / classic / bluesmaster ? I looked at many circuits and analysed them but I'm looking for feedback from other builders experiences. What do you think is the smoothest sounding circuit also ? I heard some clips of the #183 that are simply awesome and smooth, but others that are shrill ad edgy sounding ... Also, this circuit seems to work better with humbuckers and I would like to play with single coils and humbuckers. I made my own schematic/BOM of the D-lite preamp circuit with the classic 100W power amp (#124 6l6 power amp), mayby this is it ? The D-lite ? Again, heard some good clips of it, and some less good ones ...

I have to say that I listened to hundreds of clips, and read many posts that are showing the differences of those circuits and all ... But I'm looking for some personel experiences and feel. Yes, it is subjective but still, let's try.

Thanks for your feedback !

[10thTx]

I think the ManZamp sounds very 3 dimensional to my ears. Everybody has different preferences but this is one of mine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGUPyKYz3Xo

Here is the 31 page thread on the Dumble Manzamp http://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... it=ManZamp

With respect, 10thtx

[talbany]

There are quite a few contradictions in your 3 dimensional request but will give you my opinion and you can decide.
For me the most 3 dimensional would have to be my 2nd generation. Being the least complex of the ODS circuits however I wouldn't necessarily consider them the smoother of the ODS's models since they are again the simpler circuits and generally find the simpler the circuit the more dynamic the sound? (get me to the Tubes )
(2nd Gen's also have a different OD entrance and PI which contributes to it's harmonic quantity.)
I will however say that parts selection can have a rather large impact on the smoothing out the amp,so a 2nd generation with the right parts and broken in well and at stage volumes smooths out nicely and is very 3D sounding
A Dumbleator can also help to smooth the amp out as well.
Overall I would say the high plate amps are naturally smoother and are also very 3d sounding but in a different way since they don't have the extended top end like the low plates do so they are less likely to be shrill/edgy sounding as you put it. These amps have a thicker Sax like 3D quality in the way they breakup, very organic! much the way an old cranked up Tweed responds.
The Bluesmaster has a different Marshall style PI w/ less GNFB so it has a bit more grind to it vs the earlier models so I wouldn't nessicarly put this one in the "Smooth" category.

BTW...I generally find Humbuckers overall sound smoother in most ODS given their design,larger flatter, higher output pickup to help push the front end all contributes to the overall smoother sound vs a lower output single coil..IMO.
In order.
Most 3D?
2nd 3rd Generations
Low Plate Skyliners
Low Plate Classics.

Smoothest
High Plate Classics
High Plate Skyliners

I've always wanted to build a High Plate 2nd/3rd Generation amp stock??
Good Luck

Tony

[norburybrook]

if you're dialing your amp in to one guitar then things are a lot easier. If you're jumping between singles and high output humbuckers in your in for a rough ride although Robben ford seems to make it work.

If you are jumping around between gtrs then the switchable FET circuit can be your friend, I think it works great on single coils for giving that extra umph into V1. A pedal would do the same job too.

Also, and I always mention this, you HAVE to judge the sound of the amp in context NOT just sat in front of it isolated. My 2 nd gen sounds harsh and LOUD if you're stood in front of it but in the context of sitting in a band or mix on a recording it's fantastic, so that's always something to bear in mind when listening to sound clips or demoing yourself.

Unless you're a solo guitarist of course then you can have as much bottom end and sweetness as you like (he said thinking of Ted Greens solo album )

I've come to NOT use the dumbleator but do wet dry. If you have an ODS then you should have one though as it's a very useful device.

Tony's descriptions are spot on, but it's hard to describe sounds/feelings of amps though so at the end of the day you HAVE to build for yourself and experiment and find your thing. There are no shortcuts unfortunately. You may find yourself arriving right back where you started on this journey but you have to do it just so you know for yourself.

That's been my experience. But as they say : 'it's not the destination, it's the journey'


M

[jmrckr]

Thank you for your responses ! Very helpfull ... my ODS experience is pretty much low plate skyliner set up so I might go with high plate to compare. Maybe I would build some independent circuit blocks on a bench and try different tonestacks for example. And yes, I know it is very subjective.

To be continued ...

[martin manning]

... my ODS experience is pretty much low plate skyliner set up so I might go with high plate to compare. Maybe I would build some independent circuit blocks on a bench and try different tonestacks for example.

Most of the conversion from low plate to high plate involves a handful of inexpensive parts, Ra, Rk, for four preamp stages, and Ck on two, so you may want to try that. IIRC Marcus went down that path.

[talbany]

Marcus is absolutely right on the 2nd generation. When I first built mine it was mid heavy open bright and at times can be considered harsh. Over some time and from recommendations from other prominent builders I tried different parts types (including tubes) to help smooth the amp out and it really helped quite a bit. Just sitting at home in front of the amp at low volumes (in OD) is not where this thing really shines. For me it's in a band setting cranked up cutting through the mix the harmonic content is insane.. Remember in the early 70's Pro guitar players wanted and needed some volume to play live. Today it seems like everybody it petrified of a loud guitar amp

Tony

[marcos]

My .02 cents:
As the owner of a 2nd generation ODS since 1979, I totally agree with Tony´s observations. Yes, these amps do sound very 3D at stage volumes, imho they need to be played at about the volume of a rock drum set in order to really shine. At bedroom levels, they are far less impressive. That said, I haven´t used mine in many years for gigs, simply because it is too loud for most occasions these days. Still use it in the studio, for everything, really.

[jmrckr]

Great, thanks ! In fact, I think that what I want is more of that sax type smooth tone ... so High plate.

[norburybrook]

Great, thanks ! In fact, I think that what I want is more of that sax type smooth tone ... so High plate.

I'd go with a #183 then for sax like smooth tone


M

[ijedouglas]

Great, thanks ! In fact, I think that what I want is more of that sax type smooth tone ... so High plate.

I'd go with a #183 then for sax like smooth tone


M

I'd second that