Old vs New Speakers

[Littlewyan]

I've been looking at buying some Pre G12M Pulsonic Cone Celestions recently, but I've been thinking. If you want to use your cabinet every week for gigs or band rehearsal, is buying older speakers a good idea? They will obviously need a recone at some point and once they're reconed the only original parts left are the magnet and frame. So you end up with an almost new speaker anyway. So it is really worth buying older speakers for this purpose? Or it is better to stick with the new reissues? Or in this case the Heritage G12M.

[Colossal]

You kind of answered your own question in a way. It's all in the value you place on the The Sound of vintage speakers vs. cost and wear and tear. If you gig constantly, my preference would be to beat on some new speakers. If you gig infrequently and it's special when you do and need "the tone" for those rare occasions, then get the Pulsonics. I personally have limited utility for vintage stuff. Yeah, I had a '72 slant with original Greenbacks and it was killer, but these days I do something different and think I would be just fine with Heritage Greenbacks. Jim's Scumbacks sound great as an alternative to Celestions. You're in the UK so you're probably going to have an easier time just getting Celestions, if that is the sound you are after. If you were here in the States, I have a '69 slant with Scumbacks I'd love to sell.

[Littlewyan]

I think I'll stick to the Heritage G12M Speakers then. I would love the vintage G12M Speakers but it just doesn't seem right to use them as much as I would. If I had the capacity for a recording rig then I'd go for them and keep them to one side for recording only but I only have one speaker cab.

Yes Dave stop tempting me with gear in the states . You guys have all the cool stuff!

[Colossal]

I think I'll stick to the Heritage G12M Speakers then. I would love the vintage G12M Speakers but it just doesn't seem right to use them as much as I would. If I had the capacity for a recording rig then I'd go for them and keep them to one side for recording only but I only have one speaker cab.

I think that would be best. If the Pulsonics are in good shape, buy'em for home and recording! The audience at your gig is not going to know (or appreciate) the difference with G12M Heritage vs. Pulsonics. Heck, you'll probably have to fight the sound man anyway.

Yes Dave stop tempting me with gear in the states . You guys have all the cool stuff!

Sorry buddy!

[Littlewyan]

That is one reason for changing speakers. My Eminence GB12s are very efficient at 101dB!

No I can't imagine an audience member coming up to me after a gig and asking if I'm using original Pulsonic Cone G12Ms .

[pdf64]

I suspect that Eminence's efficiency (and power handling) assessment method results in higher numbers than the system used by Celestion.
I think you've reported that there's always an attenuator (set ~-10dB?) between amp and speaker, and it may be that you don't ever push the speakers very hard.
So the speakers may not ever get more than a few watts apiece and their wear (and break in) process may be very slow.
So a vintage speaker may give good service for you, and its mojo may facilitate a better performance from you than a new one.
Hopefully your audience may appreciate that, even if the finer points of the tone are lost on them.

[Littlewyan]

Well the GB12s are definitely a lot louder than the Heritage G12Ms. Someone posted a clip comparing the two (lucky me eh) and said even after adjusting the volume level the GB12 was still louder. But I do think you're right, Eminence do always come up with higher numbers. It seems they only have 1 or 2 speakers that are below 100dB!

If I bought the Heritage speakers I think I could attenuate quite a bit less so I could push them harder. Although the wear process will still be slow like you say, especially so with Heritage speakers. I believe Jim at Scumback said they need roughly 200 playing hours!!

Does anyone here use vintage speakers regularly for gigs? Its just it seems a lot of guitarists will buy these speakers but keep them to one side.

[deeder]

Obviously not! Depends on what kind of gigs you are hired.
For small clubs I use exclusively my 1936 loaded with a pair of vintage T1871 8 Ohms wired in series. It’s a compact cab with fully break in drivers, my guitars get a good attack paralleled with a smooth tone. Perfect match with a 1987, to my taste indeed. Those drivers need to live too. But this is the only exception on my rule.

I use exclusively 1960 slant cabs w/ EVM12L on the road for reliability and the power they are able to handle. For instance, this year will be hundred dates touring with a pop/rock female singer 6 pieces band, in/out door stages, medium or large venue. So I bought two slants (second hand for cheap)/8 EVM12L fed by 1987 (personal build) and 2203 (original 1977) that I play stereo for high gain sound. Since the repertoire is Celtic songs with lots of balls or something so I bought a new amp for cleans/semi crunch, a little Jackson Britain 30w head loaded with one Creamback Heritage cab. It does the job right. Yes I know, it would be fun to build an EF86 based amp but the time missed me.
So the rig is two Marshalls + two 1960 slant cabs and Britain 30 (quad EL84) + one ported cab.

This tour will be probably the last one for me, my wife is less patient now... Hey wait... I still have long hair and not too many wrinkles !!

Well, the tubes into the Marshalls will be modern production (for spare). Concerning the Britain 30 I was lucky to get ten NOS EF86 and 3 NOS E80F for next to nothing, so no problem for spare tubes. The power section are completed with JJEL84, which are very good as you know. Anyway I take an insurance for the equipment! It is expensive but…

For studio jobs, I only use my vintage Celestion’s.

PS: it seems that my English is going better, isn’t it? Thanks to light my judgment, some progress are expected for sure !^)

[martin manning]

100 gigs is a busy schedule. Celtic music? I'm having a hard time imagining plexi's and 4x12's there, unless in France "Celtic" means English rock. Do you have any links to your band's music that you can share?

Votre anglais est bien meilleur que mon français!

[deeder]

https://youtu.be/gp9j0G7dUv4?list=UUgMG ... a1IpexkJBQ

Lots of Irish style and Celtic songs from Bretagne too. Not my band, it's the very first time I play with her, maybe more if 2016 will be good with this orchestra ! We let's see...
These shows are going to tame the beast who are living into my deep (purle) brain

[martin manning]

That's fantastic! Wonderful performance with much feeling by the singer... I'm a fan already!

[xtian]

Fancy fun, Deeder! I want photos from the road. Yes, your rig, but also the green room food service!

[deeder]

Thanks for your kind words mates, and yes she is very talented.
I don't want to highjack your thread Littlewyan

[norburybrook]

This tour will be probably the last one for me, my wife is less patient now... Hey wait... I still have long hair and not too many wrinkles !!

Deeder, don't give up on your tours, it's now the only way left in the music business to make any money!! Here in the UK the studio session scene has died, people need to make albums with tiny budgets as there's no money coming back in from sales. Nashville was about the last place I'd experienced to still to have an active session/recording scene but I haven't worked there for a few years now so that might have changed too.



Marcus

[Littlewyan]

Your English is fine Deeder! I didn't know you weren't English until you mentioned it.

Great band, I enjoyed that song. The singer is amazing.

Start up a new thread and post photos of your rig