First post, first amp build - Ceriatone Expression?

[jdel77]

Hi all, first post here.

I've built up a few Blackface boards, a Tweed Champ, used to run a pedal repair business on the side and have done various mods on Marshall, old Mesa Marks etc...
I'm thinking of building my first amp - a Ceriatone Trainwreck Express clone.
I want to run this into my old early 80's straight front Marshall 4x12 with late 80's UK Greenback Reissues mainly (I also have an Achillies 1x12 with an EV and a pair of vintage Altec 417's I really should put into a 2x12...)

What's the general vibe of the experts here on whether the Ceriatone is a good imitation of a 'Wreck?
Is it recommended, or should I source my own BOM?

Any help much appreciated,
Cheers!

Jesse
Melbourne/Australia

[dorrisant]

Nice to meet you, Jesse. Welcome!

Some may not want to comment about Ceriatone, in general. You may not get as much help with one of their kits. That is just the way the general attitude toward Ceriatone goes around here.

I would bet money that rj's transformer sets for an Express are quite a bit better and are closer to the correct tone. But you are in AUS... There are others that would know more about what's available in your area.

That being said, I'm not sure you should build an Express as your first build. They look deceptively simple on paper, but could take a rookie builder down a rough road. The lead dress must be precisely laid out. I'm not joking when I tell you that if you have certain wires 1/8" (or less) out of place, it could make the difference between just right and an oscillating nightmare. Not to mention that there are several places in the wiring that this can happen.

It's up to you. It really depends on your experience. From what you wrote, you are certainly capable, I just don't know about ready for an Express. I can't tell from here. If you do spring for it, post it here. There is no better place for help on that circuit. I, for one, would try to help.

I'm not trying to discourage you. Sorry if it sounds that way.

Tony

[jdel77]

Great reply and much appreciated. Thanks.
I've read that Trainwrecks can be very high gain - is the oscillation that edgy?
I'm not after monumental amounts of drive here - more about tone than distortion per se.
Essentially my main amps are my Soldano SLO100, an early No Stripe/Black Dot Mesa MKIII and my old '64 AC30.
I'm basically fishing around for an amp circuit to build that is quite different to the three I've already got - Trainwreck seems to be pretty unique!

[Roe]

I am happy with my ceriaexpress but I have changed both signal and filer caps and the grounding scheme. Perhaps the output transformer could also be changed but I have not bothered

[RockinRocket]

The first Wreck I built was a Ceriatone. I'm a big supporter of these kits because of their affordable price. Realistically though you can build your own Wreck with all the good/authentic parts (Mallory PVC caps, Paific reissue transformers, Spargue Atom caps) in the USA for the cost of the Ceriatone. Every build after the Ceriatone I thought sounded better.

For a kit I would look here at are own forum member RJs store.

http://www.rjguitars.net/product/origin ... k-chassis/

[pompeiisneaks]

Yeah I think the reason many here aren't happy to help with ceriatone questions is due to their circuits being copied almost exactly from here, and then ceriatone don't provide their customers the best help in troubleshooting, so they end up here. There are quite a few more of us that don't mind helping if we can, but you'll get more assistance if you go more the 'from scratch' route. I agree with dorrisant that it could be a challenging build, I've not built an express but have read a lot of people's impressions about how tricky dialing it in can be. It's built on purpose to be near the edge of chaos to get the tone, and you have to know how to dial it back a touch and make everything 'perfect' from all I've read. You still may make an outstanding amp, though, so do what you feel will be the most challenging to you. There are other amps here that may not be quite so gnarly, like the tweedle dee deluxe, it's still a more advanced build with trim pot for the phase inverter, as well as a LNFB that changes tonality a bit from the stock fender sound. I love mine.

Welcome to the forums.

~Phil

[Noobytube]

The first Wreck I built was a Ceriatone. I'm a big supporter of these kits because of their affordable price. Realistically though you can build your own Wreck with all the good/authentic parts (Mallory PVC caps, Paific reissue transformers, Spargue Atom caps) in the USA for the cost of the Ceriatone. Every build after the Ceriatone I thought sounded better.

For a kit I would look here at are own forum member RJs store.

http://www.rjguitars.net/product/origin ... k-chassis/

I went to RJ’s store via your link, seems RJ has been a very valuable asset to the wreck clone community in more ways than one! I will be buying a bunch of stuff from him for my build once he gets going again! I hope all is well with him.

[romberg]

I'm thinking of building my first amp
...
should I source my own BOM?

For a first amp build I really recommend a kit. Maybe it is just me, but sourcing/buying parts is my most hated part of any amp build. I'm much rather wire up heaters for three hours than spend the same amount of time wandering part websites trying to locate what I need for a build. And you can never get all the parts you need from one place and in one order. A complete kit eliminates this frustration. And for a first amp build, one does not need to then worry about having all the correct parts.

You can always choose to upgrade some of the parts in a kit if you desire while still knowing that you already have everything you need to build your first amp. And these parts upgrades can happen at a later time. Because almost no amp you make for yourself ever is left un-tinkered with for long .

Of course, some of the components will be easier and cheaper to get right the first time. Big ticket items like transformers and the chassis are more difficult to swap out later. So, getting a kit from someone like R.J., where you know you will have good transformers and chassis, makes a lot of sense.

As Tony points out, an express is known for being a bit tricky. But building one for your first amp is not impossible if you go slow, ask questions and follow good known working layouts. An express is a pretty unique amp compared to the ones you have. So, that alone I think would make it worth while.

Mike

[M Fowler]

www.rjguitars.net for complete or partial kits.

Mark

[andresound]

My first build was an Express with All the parts and cabinet from RJ. What a great guy to deal with. Amp is still going strong and sounds GREAT!!! Highly recommended

[M Fowler]

While I was building my first TW Liverpool I ordered a complete built Ceriatone Expression.

That thing was loud and aggressive. I switched the 5k2 and 6k6 secondaries and made no difference to me.
I made a four preamp tube hot rod plexi out of it and sold it.

I like TW Rockets better.

Mark

[jdel77]

Wow. That RJ site is excellent. I really appreciate the tip!

[Mark]

I wouldn't be intimidated building an Express. They have a lot of gain but not as much as other amps. The amp is a typical Fender blackface preamp with a cold clipper, the Tweed PI has a lot of gain with EL-34's at the output stage.

The Dumble modded amps are quite similar too.

[geetarpicker]

Something about the transformers (my guess) makes the Ceriatone Express a very loud and bright amp. I put a Ceriatone next to my original TW, and even with 6V6s in the Ceri it was noticeably louder than my original with EL34s. That said the Ceri I played was a factory built amp, and the build quality was very nice.

[badgerline]

It's also worth noting that the Ceriatone tone stack uses 1M pots for bass and treble: when set for flat EQ (treble full, bass low-mid and treble low), you will have about 5dB more volume than if using 250k pots. 5dB = almost twice as loud!