Does anyone have a source for Perfboard?

[Snapcase]

www.turretboards.com

Great! Thanks Chimeboss.

[MarkB]

I think they have perf board at You-Do-It Electronics in Needham MA. I don't know about the hole size.

http://www.youdoitelectronics.com/index.htm

[UR12]

All Perfboard/prototyping board/punchboard is not created equal. I don't consider myself an expert on the subject but thought i would try and describe the differences and share some of the info I have gathered while trying to find a supplier. The original board material in thw TWs was made of Phenolic material. It comes in 2 different designations, FR1 and FR2. (FR is an industry designation for "Flame Retardent") Most of the circuit boards made today use a Fiberglass resin that is designated FR4. The phenolic board was .062" thick (1/16" thick) Thicker boards were available years ago.

Next comes the hole spacing specifications. Most of the boards available today have holes drilled on .1" centers. This is so they can accept DIP/SIP chips (Dual/Single Inline Pacakage). The chips have their leads spaced at .1" centers so you can place something like a 1458 or any of the 7400 / 4000 series TTL/CMOS devices on the board. This is an industry standard for these devices and the board was designed to fit them. The Phenolic boards in the Franchesca had their hole centers spaced at .265" (17/64") apart. Marshall (RS) also had some that was used in some of the early Plexis (Mid 60s) that was spaced at .375" centered (3/8") Both .265 and .375 were readily available up until the late 80s and early 90s but has become hard to find as the supplys have all but ran out.

The hole diameter has more to do with the size of the turrets available. Turrets are GENERALY SPEAKING 3/32" (.093") in diameter. This was the same size as the old push through pins used on the Franchesca and other amps of the time.

I have only found one manufacturer that still makes a board that has .093" holes spaced at .265". This is GC (Part number 22-518). The board only comes in one size and that is 3.5" x 8". I posted a link where you can buy this size board in an above post. It costs about $5 - $6 bucks a piece. Unfortunately the TW board was about 9 - 10 inches long.

Having said all of that I have contacted about a dozen manufactures in the US and all of them have switched to FR4 board and aren't interested in making the FR2 stuff. I did find one manufacturer that has a plant overseas and is at least willing to give it a try. They have asked for a sample of the original so they can decide if it is possible for them to do. I am sending out the sample to them Monday and will keep you posted. I would still like to see if Keystone mentioned by someone in an above post can make the stuff.

Most of the posts I am seeing are linking to suppliers that carry the .1" spaced stuff. The holes are way to small to insert turrets or pins to solder component to without drilling the holes out ourselves. If that is what someone wants to do then why not just order blank Phenolic or Glass board and drill out only the holes you need like at Turretboards.com. Will it work, Yes. Will it be exactly like the TW, NO. so I guess it depends on how anal a person wants to be in copying the TWs to exacting specs. Personally, no one is going to see it and if the amp sounds like a TW then who cares. The type of board used IMHO will have very little to do with how the amp sounds. Since I find myself "Prototyping" more amps these days I would like the option of just grabing a piece of board and inserting pins or turrets to install the components until I get the layout the way I like it. This is a lot faster way to build prototype amps and I am sure this is the reason that Ken and other manufactures used this type board.

Hope this helps!

[Funkalicousgroove]

Would you rather have it out of FR2? I was going to have Keystone do it out of Brown G-10/FR4 for safety, I don't know that they will consider the FR2-

[loverocker]

Interesting update, Dana. The stuff I am having made (slowly and painfully) is in the Marshall/RS style with holes spaced and sized differently to what you say Francesca's uses.

[UR12]

Hey Funk and Loverocker

The only reason I was looking at FR2 was that the boards used in amps back then were phenolic and so is FR1 and FR2. (Just trying to get it as close to the original as possible.) I am sure G10 would work just fine as would Gargolyte or any other material used for boards. It seems that everyone in the US has switched to FR4 and doesn't want to mess with FR2. If you can get Keystone to make it out of Brown FR4 then that would be great! Keep us posted!

Interesting update, Dana. The stuff I am having made (slowly and painfully) is in the Marshall/RS style with holes spaced and sized differently to what you say Francesca's uses.

I took my specs from the board layout that is posted in the files section. I counted the holes and came up with the board dimensions to approximate the Franchesca as close as I could. Since .265 was a standard size that I am assuming was used in the Franchesca (I have never seen on for real). I have a piece of 1/8" thick 2.5" wide and 10 inches long and holes spaced at 3/8" that I was told was used by Marshall at one time. I am pretty sure that Marshall probably used the .265 stuff also judging by some pictures of Plexi's that I have seen.

What are the specs on the stuff you are making/ manufacturing? Any help would be appreciated! Does it have holes spaced at .375 or .265?

Thanks!

[UR12]

Here is a picture of the board that I have with the holes spaced at 3/8" .375

[Allynmey]

Dana, that looks good. I'll compare my layout to the pic. How much per unit and is it 1/8"?

Allynmey

[loverocker]

Dana - here's a photo that shows the road I've been down. The strip in the centre is a 7x27 hole piece of the original RS stuff that Marshall used. That's the size for the 18W turret board.

The tan-coloured squarish piece below it is some later material - different colour and different material but to the same dimensions to accept the same turrets. But it shows how it was supplied to Marshall - as a single 21x27 hole board which Marshall then cut down (7x27 for 18Wers, 8x27 for JTMs). This explains why you see slightly inconsistent board sizes depending on how precisely it was cut (see how close one row of holes is very close to the edge of the 18W board)

All of this stuff is definitely on 3/8" spacing. Although when I say 'definitely', I need to add a caveat: there's a tolerance and/or tooling wear and/or material property issue which means that the final boards are not precise (close enough for rock and roll though ).

I've never yet seen a Marshall with 0.265 spacing, which is why I think the Francesca material must've come from a completely different supplier.

[908ssp]

I am not really up on all this board stuff. But I have a digital read out milling machine and I could drill a pattern plate for someone if that would help. What I am thinking is a plate large enough to cover your board in whatever hole center you want made from aluminum then you can clamp your board to the guide plate and drill out the boards yourself on any drill press. I figure a 1/2 x 5 x 12 guide plate would cost about $50. Maybe you guys can share the cost? Email me if your interested.

[Funkalicousgroove]

I'd take one, It's not like you have to drill out the un-used holes!! When can I get my hands on it??

[UR12]

Dana - here's a photo that shows the road I've been down. The strip in the centre is a 7x27 hole piece of the original RS stuff that Marshall used. That's the size for the 18W turret board.

All of this stuff is definitely on 3/8" spacing. Although when I say 'definitely', I need to add a caveat: there's a tolerance and/or tooling wear and/or material property issue which means that the final boards are not precise (close enough for rock and roll though ).

I've never yet seen a Marshall with 0.265 spacing, which is why I think the Francesca material must've come from a completely different supplier.

Loverocker

Thanks for the info! This really brings it all together. The rest of the people on this board must think we are nuts for getting down to this level. (Including Jim and Ken)

The Plexi that I saw had 8 holes wide and 27 long. At 3/8" spacing this would have made the board about 3 inches wide and 10 inches long which makes sense. I went back and counted the holes on the Franchesca pics and it was 8 holes wide and 35 long. If the hole spacing was 3/8" on that board it would have to be about 13.5 inches long so it has to be a board spaced at .265 in the Franchesca. The Franchesca board is about 2.25 - 2.5 inches wide and 9.5 inches long (8 x 35). I would assume that different manufacturers were used by Jim and Ken. I think they probably went with what was available to them at the time.

Like you said any of this would be close enough for Rock-N-Roll but it is great that we can at least have the right specs if someone wants to make or have one manufactured. Kind of makes you wonder why we go to all of this trouble for something that only an amp tech usually will see when servicing the amp. How many times have you wanted to take the chassis out of an amp just to show off all of your hard work?

[UR12]

Thought I would go ahead and post this in this thread. I stopped by a local Electronic store on my way home from work and scored these little jewels today. Since we have been discussing the board specs I thought I would post the picture and data on the terminal pins used on the Franchesca.

They were made by GC /Calectro part # J4-636. I don't know if they are still made.

Dana

[Funkalicousgroove]

WOW! Did you buy all they had? If not you should!! If there are any more out there I'd sure like to get my hands on them!

[UR12]

Unfortunally they only had the thre packs left and I bought all they had. I figured this would get me through one good build if I'm lucky. I just thought if I could find them then maybe someone else might get lucky too if they new what to look for.

The sales guy couldn't even find a price on these things and sold em to me for a dollar a pack. Woohoooo!!!